The Qur'an: Misinterpreted, Mistranslated, and Misread.

[Pal Malater]

Cleared by Cedars



The Qur'an:Misinterpreted, Mistranslated, and Misread. "The Qur'an states that its language is Arabic. But Arab speaking people have difficulty understanding the language of the Qur'an. The difficulty stems from the fact that its language was not and has never been Arabic.The language of the Qur'an has been and still is Aramaic."

The discovery of the Qur'anic manuscripts in Yemen in 1972, better known as the "San'a Manuscripts", is the most important development in the study of the history of the Qur'an. Those manuscripts represent the earliest form of the Qur'anic script, which is different from the script used in modern Qur'an. The script of the Sana'a documents, lack the vowel signs and the diacrtiticals necessary to render accurate vocalization. The process of copying modern Qur'an from the older script resulted in numerous errors.

http://www.syriacaramaicquran.com/

[cedars]

I think Mr. Sawma misread many things. The Qur'an language is Arabic.

[Madman]

1) Arabic is almost by definition the language of the Quran. The gramatical rules of arabic are evidenced by Quranic text, anything which does not conform is wrong. other dialects that existed are no longer considered formal/correct arabic.


2) Yemen never spoke Syriac or Aramaic as far as I'm aware.

Madman

[ramice]

Cedars,

I would not go as far as calling the language of the Koran "Aramaic", however many Arabic words can be traced to Aramaic roots. In particular are the words that cannot be understood in the Koran.

That is the essence with our beef with Islam; The fact that they are still unwilling to subject their religion, language, culture, history, traditions, etc. to linguistic, historical, contextual, and scientific inquiry. That�s why we end up with ONE dead culture, ONE dead history, ONE dead language, ONE dead (archaic) religion.

[Sheikh_Hanna]

From the research I have done the Koran is written in classical arabic, the true arabic tounge which has been long forgotten. So many dilects of arabic nowadys its hard for even an Egyptian and a Lebanese to understand each other. Many moslems pride themselves in memorizing Koran verses but do not understand the meaning of them.

[lubnani]

actually cedars, there is a german scholar that contends that the kor'an was mistranslated from aramaic,

[Pal Malater]

I think Mr. Sawma misread many things. The Qur'an language is Arabic.

Perhaps u should read it first and then judge it. U cannot just judge his work based on the title.
Aramaic is the key to unlocking the "Dan Vinci code" of the Quran (which btw derives from the Aramaic word qorowo or sermon in a church).

[cedars]

'We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an in order that ye may learn wisdom' (Al-Qur'an 12: 2).

'Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than Arabic they could have said: Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a book) not in Arabic and (a messenger) an Arab? Say: It is a guide and a healing to those who believe ...' (Al-Qur'an 41: 44).

'Thus We have sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur'an: that thou mayest warn the mother of the cities and all around her- and warn (them) of the day of assembly of which there is no doubt (when) some will be in the garden and some in the blazing fire' (Al-Qur'an 42: 7).

'A book which we have revealed unto thee in order that thou mightest lead mankind out of the depths of darkness into light- by the leave of thy Lord- to the way of (Him) the exalted in power, worthy of all praise' (Al-Qur'an 14: 1).

'We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom)' (Al-Qur'an 43: 3).

[BG]

Not only it is in arabic, but the grammatical mistakes you find in the Qoran r justified as being the proper grammar while the arab language grammar is wrong since its written by God supposebly.

[FrostBite]

Pal, All Holy book got translated and they all got flaws, it depends on the Time and the place the translation took place.

it will be different manscript in yemen than basra, becasue in Arabic "Alkhat alkofi, alkhat albasari andf alkhat almecci have different Doma Fatha, kasra and so on, so where is the discovery here;) and what is the point.
Also I noticed that the web site title is :http://www.syriacaramaicquran.com/

It should be Aramicsyriac because Syriac was derived from Aramic and not the other way around.:D

As a final note Arabic that we speak in lebanon derived from the Nabataean accent of arabic "northern Arabs" "beni Adnan", not from the southern arabic language "Languages of Yemen, saudi arabia and so on.." that is why the scripts will definitly be different.:)

[Madman]

First, what is the Syriac Pe****a (F****o)? Never heard of it.


Second, I can point out many mistakes in the article, even in the blurb... I'll give two example:




"Because of the language barrier, Muslim commentators interpreted erroneously many Qur'anic verses. Their inability to understand the Aramaic vocabulary of the Qur'an had them render erroneous interpretations. The Qur'an admits that Jesus is the "Messiah". The Qur'anic verse"Wama qataluhu wama salabuhu" does not mean 'they did not kill him and did not crucify him'. Aramaic"wma"means 'what'. Contrary to the popular Muslim interpretations,The Qur'an does say that Jesus was "killed and was crucified"."


The complete phrase is actually:



� �� ����� � �� ����� � ��� ��� ���


Somehow the use of "what" does not work any more..







"The Aramaic language of the Qur'an commands Muslims to treat women with decency; it does not state that virgin women having 'sexy eyes' are waiting in heaven for the Jihadists. In Aramaic, the language of the Qur'an says: "there are bright raisins and ****r springs"."



���� �������� ���� ���
Marriage to raisins and ****r springs???





Madman

[Arab_Persian_Al-Razi]

Madman,

Whether or not what the other is attesting to holds an relevance, I dont think its such a bad idea if you can get a large enough mass of people to start interpreting the Quran as such. It would have a considerably positive effect on Muslim society, you know, less maniacs blowing themselves up in the name of God and 7th century primitive standards.

[haddad]

I believed I have mentioned this before that Quran is part Aramaic and Part Northern Arabic .

Yemen "arabic" Pre islamic is far off from Saudi or Northern, as a matter of fact it was consititue a different language, even now Mahric ( south Yemen) is considered not Arabic at all and even Hadramautic is different. "Quraish" Arabic was enforced in Yemen during Islamic times like all smeetic speaking areas,levantine included and N Africa.

In year 2000 I followed an Italian team to Yemeni southern highlands, and we have no idea what they were talking and even a Saudi photographer did not understand. Of course we have to use "Standard Arabic" to be communicate.

And again, "Jahilliyah" Or " Arab" in Koran does not pertained to Yamanites. Because they ( Yamanites/Himyarites/Saabaeans- descandants of Ghassanids) ) have thier own civilisations with Scripts, Cultures , Vast Archaelogical sites, only 5% found now, and not Desert Like. They were Pagans, Jewish and Christians before they became Moslems.It does not pertains to the Levantines and other Semtites too during that time.

Like I have already said Mohamed lineage came from Abraham and his dialect "Mustaribah" is arabised with Aramaic and Nabtateans influences, heavily.Thats why he is understood in Jerusalem and Syria.

When " God" in The Koran said its is Arabic language it meant that this language was understood as "Arabic" that time, because the Quraish and Meccans were the first to be "Arabised". Until today the Yamanites( Southerners) never felt affiliate towards the " Northern Arabs" or Bedu.

[Pal Malater]

'We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an in order that ye may learn wisdom' (Al-Qur'an 12: 2).

'Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in a language) other than Arabic they could have said: Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a book) not in Arabic and (a messenger) an Arab? Say: It is a guide and a healing to those who believe ...' (Al-Qur'an 41: 44).

'Thus We have sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Qur'an: that thou mayest warn the mother of the cities and all around her- and warn (them) of the day of assembly of which there is no doubt (when) some will be in the garden and some in the blazing fire' (Al-Qur'an 42: 7).

'A book which we have revealed unto thee in order that thou mightest lead mankind out of the depths of darkness into light- by the leave of thy Lord- to the way of (Him) the exalted in power, worthy of all praise' (Al-Qur'an 14: 1).

'We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom)' (Al-Qur'an 43: 3).

There are over a dozen Aramaic dialects, derivatives (not options, swaps and futures) and vernaculars and the Nabatean is but one of them. It is through this Nabatean Aramaic that the "Arabic' of the Quran was derived from.
A wandering Aramean was my father.....

[7alloum]

So as much as Cedars gives you proof from the Qura'an, you're going to still attest to the idea that the it's Arameic...

[Pal Malater]

So as much as Cedars gives you proof from the Qura'an, you're going to still attest to the idea that the it's Arameic...

neither u nor cedars is an expert on qoranic studies, aramaic or syriac issues. before u continue, why don't u read the book and then try to opine...

[felixferett-1]

i admit i do not have a deep understanding of the Qran, particulerly in the current debate of weather it was originally written in Aramaic, or Arabic. But what i have studied, i have developed respect for.
not long ago i experienced a deep spiritual crisis, and almost took up islam. i instesd returned to christianity, and now feel totaly complete.
what i discovered in the Qran, was the same respect and love for God as in christianity, but without a personall relationship with God being encouraged.
i found it interesting that, the Qran respects the Gospel of Jesus, and the Torah, yet denys their teaching, that nothing is to be added or taken from them, while the Qran is deemed, the last instilation of Holy scripture.
it seems to me, in that example, an oxymoron, which i found confusing.

In the Gospel, Ephesians 1:5 it says "Having predestned us to adoption as sons of God by Jesus Christ"
So, it seems that all who know Christ, have been predestined....created to know Him, then wouldnt that also include Muslims who have rejected Christianity, but accepted Jesus as Healer, and learned about Him in the Qran, but have not yet accepted Him in totality? i mean , why else would God ensure that Jesus is included in the Qran? and the credibility of His Gospel?

Jesus warned us to follow God, not the doctrine of man. i think it has been the doctrine of man, that has tried to keep Jesus locked within a surah in the Qran, rather than permiating it.
Remembering that Mohummad was a Christ follower before his revelation, i find it interesting, that his writings (Qran) led on, through history, to the denial of Christ, rather than, increasing the Revelation and understanding of Him.
Mohummad's family and friends also confirmed that his revelation was in line with what they knew of the Gospel and Torah.
It seems that somewhere along the line of history, the Qran has been corupted, most likely by the doctrine of man.
But as i am not God, i do not know. although i do pray for Him to reveal this mystery to me.
one time while praying for a revelation on this subject, the Holy Spirit of God, directed me to Genesis 21:8-21.
in chapter 21:13 of Genesis, it says that God spoke to Abraham, saying "Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman(Hagar), because he is your seed"
Therefor, i believe, that it is intentional to include Jesus in the Qran,
perhaps to give the opportunity for its readers to invite Him to reveal Himself to them, or to give a reminder of the credibility of His Gospel...

lots of questions, too little answers:)

[Pal Malater]

But as i am not God, i do not know. although i do pray for Him to reveal this mystery to me.
one time while praying for a revelation on this subject, the Holy Spirit of God, directed me to Genesis 21:8-21.
in chapter 21:13 of Genesis, it says that God spoke to Abraham, saying "Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman(Hagar), because he is your seed"
Therefor, i believe, that it is intentional to include Jesus in the Qran,
perhaps to give the opportunity for its readers to invite Him to reveal Himself to them, or to give a reminder of the credibility of His Gospel...

lots of questions, too little answers:)

Galatians:
6 (http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians1.htm#foot6) I am amazed that you are so quickly foresaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel
7 (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed! 7 (http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians1.htm#foot7) 9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed! 10 Am I now currying favor with human beings or God? Or am I seeking to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ.

Pal

[felixferett-1]

Thanx Pal Malater, your post shed light on my searching heart.
How Awesome is the Gospel?:) i can never get enough of it!
In that verse, it speaks of events, that were yet to come, and God gave us a firm foundation to stand on. He is sooooooo gracious!
All Glory to Him for His guidence and wisdom!
Thanx again, for although i strive to allow God to foster compassion in my heart, i wander from the point at times. And surely, without offence to others and their beliefs, there is evidence of the 'accursed'.
God Bless

[pal_guest]

the quran language is not aramaic, the quran language is arabic, the similarities found can be easily explained, arabic, aramaic etc etc belong to the same semitic root henc you'll find similarities.

it's a no brainer, just like you'll find similarities between english, german and french texts which belong to the same latin root.

[pal_guest]

Not only it is in arabic, but the grammatical mistakes you find in the Qoran r justified as being the proper grammar while the arab language grammar is wrong since its written by God supposebly.

you got it wrong buddy, it is said that islam's god is bigger than having to adhere to any set of linguistic rules made by us humans thus the so called "mistakes" which are mistakes according to the arabic language.

[Sheikh_Hanna]

I have been told on other forums that the Koran is perfect and never has suffered the mistranslations and rewrites many moslem apologists claim the bible has and thus has lost its meaning.

[michael715]

...on other forums that the Koran is perfect and never has suffered the mistranslations and rewrites
many moslem apologists claim the bible has and thus has lost its meaning.In all of Catholicism, the Holy Bible is a pillar of our Faith and has been since it's oral tradition
was written down. That said, the Holy See has always been bound by the Holy Spirit to pass
on the Bible in it's truest form. Throughout the translation process over the passage of time,
some instances have been noted that were not translated as well as could be. The Church
is obligated to incorporate these in accordance with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
+++++
(CCC107)
The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred
writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that
the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth
which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."
+++++
It is through the dedication of the Church that the truth, as closely as possible, be made
available in a timely manner to ALL generations. So, as ancient manuscripts become
available every attempt is made to insure the that the Faithful are given the truth as it should
be done with the Quran. Currently, efforts are underway, with the approval of Holy See,
to integrate the Dead Sea scrolls manuscripts into the Torah as well as the Holy Bible. I have
knowledge of this from one of the leading authorities on the project. This will not change
anyones faith but it will add to the mystery of God which can never be fully visible.
+
++
+++
You have been told,
O man, what is good,
and what the LORD requires of you:
Only to do right and love goodness,
and to walk humbly with your God.
+++
++
+

[yazid904]

The roots of Arabic are in the Arabian peninsula, now known as Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Other places like Palestine and Jerusalem spoke Aramaic as an influence from the Syriac presence or vice versa!

If we believe the language of the Qur'an was pure, then there was no Aramaic language influence!

[shreek]

the quran language is not aramaic, the quran language is arabic, the similarities found can be easily explained, arabic, aramaic etc etc belong to the same semitic root henc you'll find similarities.

it's a no brainer, just like you'll find similarities between english, german and french texts which belong to the same latin root.

The word KORAN is not even Arabic.
What does it mean in Arabic? Not one Arabic Etymologist can tell you, unless they know Syriac.

[Yassine]

Shreek, the Koran/ Quran القرآن is arabic 100%.
It means another word for summing the total Suras of the Quran (the 114 Suras that is) that is what the word Quran means.

The word KORAN is not even Arabic.
What does it mean in Arabic? Not one Arabic Etymologist can tell you, unless they know Syriac.

[Yassine]

SH, I think the research that you have made has some accuracy.
But maybe you misunderstood.
The Quran was revealed to Muhammad in 13 different dialects (the 13 dialects that the arabs spoke at the time.)
The two major dialects that we currently use in the Quran are the recitation of Hafs and the recitation of Warsh. Hafs recitation is used by more than 90% of today's Muslims and Warsh recitation is used by some areas in the Maghrib Al-Arabi. I think that is what you might have read. However, all recitations still exist till today.

In regards to understanding the Quran; I tend to disagree, there are many arabs that understand it, Christians and Muslims. As a matter of fact I know a Dr in the Arabic language from the North of Lebanon who knows the Quran and understands everything in it and this person happened to be a Christian.

From the research I have done the Koran is written in classical arabic, the true arabic tounge which has been long forgotten. So many dilects of arabic nowadys its hard for even an Egyptian and a Lebanese to understand each other. Many moslems pride themselves in memorizing Koran verses but do not understand the meaning of them.

[Picasso]

Not only it is in arabic, but the grammatical mistakes you find in the Qoran r justified as being the proper grammar while the arab language grammar is wrong since its written by God supposebly.

Could you point out to those mistakes?

[Picasso]

«أبجدية القرآن من مملكة سبأ»
محمد عقل

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5783/mbook.gif

الناشر:
"أبجدية القرآن من مملكة سبأ" الكتاب الأول لمؤلفه محمد عقل، هو المحاولة العربية الأولى التي تثبت بالدليل العلمي أن الحرف العربي الشمالي (القرآني) يعود بأصوله إلى الخط المسندي -الحمْيَري في جنوب اليمن
.
ويكشف أن هذه الأبجدية الجنوبية اليمنية، العمودية الحروف (1200ق.م) تحولت إلى الأفقية عبر بناتها الشماليات: الثمودية واللحيانية والصفوية (800ق.م-100ق.م) فضلاً عن تضمنها حرف الضاد (ض) الذي تسمت العربية باسمه. وهو غير موجود في "الساميات" كلها!! وهذا ما يدحض مسلمات نظرية الأصل الفينيقي أو الآرامي للخط العربي، ويحقق البحث في النظام الأبجدي العربي وصوره ومعانيه، ويدقق في العلاقة الحركية بين الخط العربي واللغة العربية وجذورها الثلاثية اليمنية (1500 ق.م) ويؤكد بالأدلة والمقاربات أن أبجدية القرآن هي من مملكة سبأ. وأن عمر الحرف العربي يتعدى الـ4000 سنة. ويزين الباحث صفحات الكتاب بمئات المخططات والجداول والرموز ونماذج الخطوط الدالة والشروحات الوافية، والمصادر والمراجع والفهارس العلمية، ما يجعل الكتاب موسوعة صغيرة تحقق وتبحث وتجتهد بأشكال الكتابة الخطوطية العربية وتطورها عبر العصور، وهذا ما جعل الجامعة اللبنانية -كلية الآداب تنوه بالبحث، وتوصي بنشره في منشوراتها.

[bilal]

Was the concept of "Grammar" present those days?

That is, well known rules by all the Arab tribes? Highly-highly unlikely.
Different tribes had different "Grammar" rules.
Grammar as a rule of language came later on. Maybe more than 200 years and onwards.

PS. This is not to defend that the Quran is "God's book".



Could you point out to those mistakes?

[shreek]

Could you point out to those mistakes?

There are grammatical errors, contradictions, inconsistencies, contradictions and even obscenities in the Koran. Are you sure you want those pointed out?
After all, the Koran was written by God and God can't be wrong can he??

[Ghassan Mattar]

If we believe the language of the Qur'an was pure, then there was no Aramaic language influence!

Ofcourse the language of the Quran is pure, its 100% Semitic

The problem is when impure Non-Semites (Ajam) read the Quran & misinterpret it.

Muhammad teh Great made sure the Quran had influences from all Semitic dialects because the Quran was sent to all Semites. Syriac & classical Arabic are teh main elements because MTG recieved a big % of his teachings from Syriac Sheikhs who taught MTG to hate the Roman & Persian occupying racial enemy :bored:

[Katoom]

Ofcourse the language of the Quran is pure, its 100% Semitic

The problem is when impure Non-Semites (Ajam) read the Quran & misinterpret it.

Muhammad teh Great made sure the Quran had influences from all Semitic dialects because the Quran was sent to all Semites. Syriac & classical Arabic are teh main elements because MTG recieved a big % of his teachings from Syriac Sheikhs who taught MTG to hate the Roman & Persian occupying racial enemy :bored:


Aren't there any Persian words in the Quran...?

An Arabic teacher of mine back in school (Who was also a religious Muslim) told us that some Persian words exist in the Quran... like Istabraq and Sundus...

[Seeman]

Ofcourse the language of the Quran is pure, its 100% Semitic

The problem is when impure Non-Semites (Ajam) read the Quran & misinterpret it.

Muhammad teh Great made sure the Quran had influences from all Semitic dialects because the Quran was sent to all Semites. Syriac & classical Arabic are teh main elements because MTG recieved a big % of his teachings from Syriac Sheikhs who taught MTG to hate the Roman & Persian occupying racial enemy :bored:

You mean the monophisite priest "Raheb el Bou7ayerah..Youssef ben warqa"..

[Picasso]

There are grammatical errors, contradictions, inconsistencies, contradictions and even obscenities in the Koran. Are you sure you want those pointed out?
After all, the Koran was written by God and God can't be wrong can he??

Yes I would like to see what you have.

[Picasso]

Was the concept of "Grammar" present those days?

That is, well known rules by all the Arab tribes? Highly-highly unlikely.
Different tribes had different "Grammar" rules.
Grammar as a rule of language came later on. Maybe more than 200 years and onwards.

PS. This is not to defend that the Quran is "God's book".

النحو العربي (القواعد) كان متداولاً ومعتمداً لدى القبائل ولكنه لم يكن قد وُضعَ في كتب، أو خصوصاً دخوله في طور البحث المنهجي والدرس والجدال حوله كما في مدرستي الكوفة والبصرة في العصر العبّاسي الأوّل. واضعو أمّات المراجع في النحو استقرأوا الشعر الجاهلي و"لغات" القبائل أي لهجاتهم التي لم تعرف العاميّة كما الحال اليوم، بل كانت جميعاً متشاركة في الفصاحة، ولم تكن التباينات لتجعل من واحدتها لغةً مختلفة، ولا يُفاضَلُ بينَ واحدة وأخرى، فإن قالت واحدتهم "أمسِ" بالكسر في حالات الرفع والضم والنصب، وقالت الأخرى "أمسُ وأمسَ وأمسِ" لم تكن الأولى أفصحَ من الثانية، أو أنها مخطئة والثانية مُحقّة. وهكذا في الأسماء، فنحن نقول "ثوم" على لهجة تَميم، وقُريش كانت تسمّيه "فوم" كما نزلَ القرآن، فلا تفاضل في ذلك

إذاً القبائل جميعاً كانت على فصاحة. وقواعد اللغة استُشرفتْ من لغاتها أي لهجاتها، كما كانَ الخلفاء يبعثونَ أولادهم إلى البادية ليكتسبوا فصاحةً في اللسان. وحين نزلَ القرآن كانَ التحدّي الأكبر للعرب في اللغة، ولو كان فيه خطأ لغوي لأُخذَ ذلك عليه ووُوجه بذلك النبي (ص) لدحض دعوته وردّها، لكنّ القرآن ثبت وأصبحت لغته حُجّة في النحو