Bin Ladin : 9/11 a revenge of Leb war!!!!

[Nescafe]

In a new video aired on Al Jazeera network, Bin Ladin says that 9/11 was a revenge of the US support of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon....

--------

Now this is the worst thing ever for Lebanon! People will now link Leb to Bin Ladin!!

I mean, what the hell Lebanon had to do with Bin Ladin!! When it was invaded in 1982 Bin Ladin was in Euorpe getting wasted!!!

This is not Good....not at all....

[massi7ieh_w_bass]

the one thing that caught my attention watching this video, was the timing of its release. Right when the UN itself is against the lebanese government, let alone US, France and Germany, to name the major players, a video as such appears on screens, and its highlight is the fact that Bin Laden did everything because of lebanon.

and the play goes on...

MwB

[BG]

Walla they managed to divert people laken from the real image :)

who cares about countries pressuring Lebanon ? who care about Lebanon ?

Think US elections ... this card will win Bush his elections ..

[Sheikh_Hanna]

Why is Osama outraged about Lebanon? Lebanon used to be a christain nation, and christian influcence is still a strong minority in Lebanon, also Palestine as well. I dont understand Osama motives, I thought 9/11 was a message to the western world to stop influcening the middle east culturally and polticaly, is this theme appearnt in the newest vedio?

[1984]

Seems that Bush secured the reelection :rolleyes:

[Zed]

I always thought that Ben Laden is actually helping the Bush Administration rather than weakening it. Ben Laden is a need for the Americans, in order to continue exploiting resources all around the world.
I remember "9/11 Fahreinheit".

Now that Ben Laden mentioned the israeli invasion of Lebanon, and Hizbullah acknowledged the presence of Al Qaida cells in Lebanon, i think this sets the new horizon with which the americans will be dealing once the election is over and Iraq is done with.

[The Fox]

Why is Osama outraged about Lebanon? Lebanon used to be a christain nation, and christian influcence is still a strong minority in Lebanon, also Palestine as well. I dont understand Osama motives, I thought 9/11 was a message to the western world to stop influcening the middle east culturally and polticaly, is this theme appearnt in the newest vedio?
I think that the christianity in lebanon is best represented with the LF Cross in the eye of the arab world. people like koussama ben laden want to take of that pin from their eyes. the fools, dont seem to learn the lesson that our fathers, grand fathers and great grand fathers tought them throughout the history of mount lebanon.

[Cadmous]

In a new video aired on Al Jazeera network, Bin Ladin says that 9/11 was a revenge of the US support of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon....



...

"Badoui El-Jarab Akhad Btaro Ba3ad Arb3in Cineh w 2al Bikarett "
-An ancient Lebanese Proverb

[nabil]

Pls guys, Remind me or correct me if I am wrong;

in 1982, Ben Laden was fighting the USSR troops in Afganistan, trained & equipped by the Americans, No??

So, howcome an american agent/supporter/ fighter/ soldier think about attacking the hand that is feeding him in the middle of his "Holy"war?????

Why he put the name of Lebanon in the middle of this? This is the question!!

[cedars]

Bin Laden can cost Bush the elections too. Bin Laden is still at large and threatening Americans and Bush didn't get him yet.

The American administration is thinking about imposing sanctions against Lebanon,..... do you think this will save us ? I hope you do not start pushing for that. This will lead to the total K.O of Chirstians in Lebanon. Syrians and Muslims are in power, they are in control of all the resources. They have the millions of Iran and Saudi Arabia ..... As for the Christians we do not have the LF nor any country to support us. The first to leave the country are the Christians.

I think Bush started something good in Iraq but failed big time to accomplish the mission. I do not see him going in a direction to correct the mistake and finish the job there. The only losers in all of this will be the Chirstians of the Middle East.

[Nescafe]

The only losers in all of this will be the Chirstians of the Middle East.


Thank you!! That's why I've always said it : Bush is Islamzing the whole region!

That's why I can't stand this moron....


Bin dudu's Bush endorsment, won't make Americans think oh he's outlarge...bad Bush...no...they'll revote Bush to get him....

I mean If Americans would blame Bush that he's threatning and still making videos.....Bush wouldn't have 50% of the votes so far!!

A Very mislead and misinformed ppl....

Bin Ladin just Islamized the Lebanese cause, the Palestinian cause

Cedars, Chrisitans got their faith...the strongest weapon of them all...maybe at this point we are loosing...but patience....patience...of course does it mean to sit back and hit our heads..

[Nescafe]

Why is Osama outraged about Lebanon? Lebanon used to be a christain nation, and christian influcence is still a strong minority in Lebanon, also Palestine as well.


Thank you!!!


Maybe Lebanese should flood its street in responce to Bin Dudu's lie and divertion!!!

It's like Bin Ladin will come someday, we attacked the US in revenge of tutoring St. Geroge of Lod!!!

[Rani]

bin laden never mentioned lebanon and the palestinians until way later after 9/11. he cooperated with the u.s. in the 80's after israel entered lebanon. this is nothing but propaganda like what we are used to from syria to hide the true motives. now he releases a tape criticizing bush for not leaving the school immediately after the plane hit the tower, for misleading the american people, and for giving a tax cut for the rich??!

[lallous7]

Ta7iyyi ouwwatiyyi saliba machtoub,





As Vlademir Putin said, if the americans didn't vote for Bush, that means they are voting for the terrorists.


Yalla, hope Bush will get another four years to show those arabs the real face of US.

[libertarian]

He has watched Moore's propaganda piece F 911, and he copied the stuff in there into his speech because he thinks that it have an effect on Americans. He is clearly trying to get Bush to lose, and it shows his lack of understanding of the US mentality clearly. This will help Bush.

[Ouradour]

It is affecting him negatively!!


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20041030/zogby_103004_graphic.gif

[ouweti]

Well, I guess what we heard straight from that insect’s mouth should have put an end to the Arabs’ roomer that the MOSAD had something to do with 911.

>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> BUSH >>>> KERRY
CNN Poll of polls
October 29
Likely voters, average of 7 polls (14) 49% >>>> 46%

CNN Poll of polls
October 28
Likely voters, average of 6 polls (13) 49% >>>> 46%


It did nothing at all.

[Rani]

Well, I guess what we heard straight from that insect’s mouth should have put an end to the Arabs’ roomer that the MOSAD had something to do with 911.

good luck.

bin laden already admited it in that tape captured in afghanistan describing the operation to a sheikh. well, it made no difference to the arabs.

[libertarian]

It came out just yesterday. It is impossible to know yet what effect it had and will have in the coming days.

Most polls show Bush with a 1-3 percentage points lead, and have done so for a while. The Fox Opinion Dynamics poll shows a 5 percentage point lead.

We may know on Tuesday what effect it had, and even then it would be difficult to know what was caused by that tape and what was caused by other factors.


I should add that the margin of error for most polls is about 5%, so a movement up and down of 1 or 2 points is kind of irrelevant anyway.

[alain]

Bin Laden is an ex-CIA ... what if they are still using him to send out some messages so that Bush can get more support?!!

[the french]

i would like to know what is this story with lebanon?????? I mean this is non-nense... if i am not mistaking ben machin said he realized when he saw in 82 the buildings in leb that he would plan something similar in usa...???

it is complete non sense... either he can see in the future that George Bush would be president in 2001 or i did not understand very well what he said...

[cedars]

Alain,

The CIa cut its ties with Bin Laden after the fall of the pull out of the Soviets from Afghanistan. And please those what if's keep them to the conspiracy theories. The US is at war with Bin Laden and his likes.

[libertarian]

Is there even any proof that the CIA worked with bin Laden personally back then? From what I understand he was more of a financier for the guerillas than a leader or an active fighter. And the foreign fighters in Afghanistan were only a tiny portion of the people fighting the Soviet Union anyway.

[nabil]

Let's all stop this nonsense about CIA and things like that as it is harming more than it is helping.

and for those of us who can vote, Bush is the answer as he's the only US president that didn't invite/receive Arafat at the white house and the first & only one who is pushing Syria out of Lebanon (whatever his motives are, they suit us)

[mpd]

There isn't any real proof that he got aid from the CIA but people simply assume that since he was fighting the ussr that ALL of those people had to have gotten aid from them...pretty false by any means.

What obl is trying to do is get sympathy and more of a rememberance to people that he's still alive. Of course on the same note is that there hasn't been any major attack on the usa since 9/11 (I'm sure someone could argue the anthrax and the beltway sniper etc)

[cedars]

mod a great book to read that will explains the connection from a to z:

Charlie Wilson's War The extraordinary story of the Largest Covert Operation in History, by George Crile

[cedarleb]

I always thought that Ben Laden is actually helping the Bush Administration rather than weakening it. Ben Laden is a need for the Americans, in order to continue exploiting resources all around the world.
I remember "9/11 Fahreinheit".

Now that Ben Laden mentioned the israeli invasion of Lebanon, and Hizbullah acknowledged the presence of Al Qaida cells in Lebanon, i think this sets the new horizon with which the americans will be dealing once the election is over and Iraq is done with.

Ben Laden is mentioning Lebanon beacuse of Your Sunnist Leaders who will be the most losers if Syria left Lebanon, and they are the ones who can influence another Sunnist like them. Ben Laden is doing so, to send a message to americans "do not interfer in lebanon". not to help Bush administration. But Anyway the timing is related to 1559 and the speech of Anan.

9/11 Fahreinheit is nothing but a movie created by an democratic. I remmeber back in the war years of 1975-1982 how the palestinians media propagand that Christians in Lebanon are slaughetring Innocent Palestinians and they create Movies and Movies about that. Even the Movie "west Beirut" is harming us, while showing that the Bus issue was donw in a school days and they shows a old woman coming out from the Bus while Kataeb are shooting at her. If you didnt see that movie go and see it. Thats mean that what happend? no. So for 9/11 Fahreiheit movie is 50% truth 50% lies.

[alain]

Alain,

The CIa cut its ties with Bin Laden after the fall of the pull out of the Soviets from Afghanistan. And please those what if's keep them to the conspiracy theories. The US is at war with Bin Laden and his likes.

Cedars,

I was just giving a supposition ... we all know how CIA is clever and can manipulate things ... mystery reigns !

[cedars]

Alain there is no mystery in Qardawi and other sheikhs fatawa. There is not mystery in Ahkam mouwalat al koufar. There is not mystery in "Al tamthil" bil mawta. There is no mystery in Fighting al Tawaghit. There is no mystery in the ghazawat, ..... .
The only mystery is how the Chirstian leaders and population do not know these things ....

[1984]

Cedars,
Qardawi is the grand Mufti of a tiny little country which was the first to have diplomatic relations with Isreal in the Gulf region, he's the religious adviser of the emir of this country, who's America's best ally in the Gulf. Qardawi broadcasts his fatwas from the biggest TV station in the region, which is 5 minutes drive away from the biggest american base in the Middle East. Many key positions in this TV station, including the general manager and the news director, plus several presenters, are held by members of Ikhwan al Muslimin. This TV is owned by the Foreign Minister of this country, who spends most of his time in the States, and is frequently received in the White House.
On 3-7-2004, Qardawi promulged a fatwa allowing to kill all Americans in Iraq, in the magazine, Al Ahram Al Arabi, which is state-owned in Egypt.
So, if the 3looj wanted to shut up Qardawi, they'll know where to find him.

[Khider]

Cedars,
Qardawi is the grand Mufti of a tiny little country which was the first to have diplomatic relations with Isreal in the Gulf region, he's the religious adviser of the emir of this country, who's America's best ally in the Gulf. Qardawi broadcasts his fatwas from the biggest TV station in the region, which is 5 minutes drive away from the biggest american base in the Middle East. Many key positions in this TV station, including the general manager and the news director, plus several presenters, are held by members of Ikhwan al Muslimin. This TV is owned by the Foreign Minister of this country, who spends most of his time in the States, and is frequently received in the White House.
On 3-7-2004, Qardawi promulged a fatwa allowing to kill all Americans in Iraq, in the magazine, Al Ahram Al Arabi, which is state-owned in Egypt.
So, if the 3looj wanted to shut up Qardawi, they'll know where to find him.



What a joke that man is.... when he came to London, there were like thousands of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis who came to hear him speak, they were queing outside of the University, when I asked why, they all had the same reply "He's so eloquent!" they would say. The buggers didn't even understand Arabic.... bas yalla, yom ilak, yom 3aleek.

[Khider]

Thank you!! That's why I've always said it : Bush is Islamzing the whole region!

Bin Ladin just Islamized the Lebanese cause, the Palestinian cause



Words of wisdom, surely....

[choleric]

Words of wisdom, surely....

The Americans and the Arab world know better than to say Lebanon is a Muslim country, let alone Arab.

Al Kaeda is being hunted down in Lebanon with success that is notable. The statement of Bin Laden is a message to the US, Europe (Sweden) and Lebanon. There is hate in his message more than support to Lebanon. Arabs and Muslim clergy are trying to Islamize Lebanon.

It is not the first time and will not be the last attempt. In any case, they will be put down hard the same as we put down the Palestinians' evil attempts to take over Lebanon and replace it with Palestine or so.

[Samerron]

Bin Laden has indicated that the twin tower hit was a kind of revenge for the towers destroyed in Lebanon... :(
Maybe that's why he had at least one Lebanese with the crew that exucted the hijacking on Sept. 11 !!!

[1984]

The Americans got the tape from Qataris, it has been edited.
If Bin Laden was so moved by the destruction of Beirut in 1982, he could've grabbed the nearest AK-47 and gunned down a couple of CIA operatives who were helping him and training him and his buddies. Ba3den, why he waited for 19 years to take his revenge?
By the way, when Americans were preparing for invading Afghanistan, Qardawi issued a fatwa allowing american muslims to fight with the US army, this fatwa was published in Egyptian newspapers. Qardawi's elder son studied in the unversity of Orlando, Florida, another kid in the American University of Cairo, a daughter in the university of Texas, Austin, and three daughters in the UK.

[cedars]

1984,

I gave qardawi as an example, and tryst me there are many who wants him down but many wants him to stay. The list of his likes are many, all you have to do is listen and read them and you will see what they want to do with the kufar and al nasara and .....
You will know what ghazwit NY means to them, ..... There is no conspiracy teohry here, it is a face of Islam revealed.

[alain]

Alain there is no mystery in Qardawi and other sheikhs fatawa. There is not mystery in Ahkam mouwalat al koufar. There is not mystery in "Al tamthil" bil mawta. There is no mystery in Fighting al Tawaghit. There is no mystery in the ghazawat, ..... .
The only mystery is how the Chirstian leaders and population do not know these things ....

Cedars,

I admit that before today, Qardawi , Ahkam mouwalat al koufar & Al tamthil didn't mean a thing to me ;)

[cedars]

Alain,

At least you admit, the rest of the Lebanese Christian population have no clue and they want to resist ! They do not know the enemy and they want to fight .... On the other hand, the enemy knows them very well.

[cedarleb]

Bin Laden has indicated that the twin tower hit was a kind of revenge for the towers destroyed in Lebanon... :(
Maybe that's why he had at least one Lebanese with the crew that exucted the hijacking on Sept. 11 !!!

the towers in lebanon still stand still and w didnt have many anyway. There was burj al murr and holiday in, And both still up till nowdays. and in east beirut there was burj rizk. So what towers this lunatic is talking about?

[Nescafe]

the towers in lebanon still stand still and w didnt have many anyway. There was burj al murr and holiday in, And both still up till nowdays. and in east beirut there was burj rizk. So what towers this lunatic is talking about?


And these towers are owned by the infedels Chrisitains I think???

This lunatic just simply wiped out the Christian Lebanon...and the well infromed American population will be like : Oh....he was sad about the towers in Leb, people had to set up tents in the desert and sleep near their camels in Leb!!!


The whole world is going crazy....they are islamizing the holy land region...as if Chrisitnaity doesn't exists....I know many christians...who teach in Sunday school...don't know where is the holy land...the most intellegent answer once I got was : I dunno somewhere near Africa!!!

[alain]

Alain,

At least you admit, the rest of the Lebanese Christian population have no clue and they want to resist ! They do not know the enemy and they want to fight .... On the other hand, the enemy knows them very well.

Cedars,

well, life is a school in which you learn everyday ...
in other words to what you've said : "knowledge is power"
hmm, now thinking of what i've just said, how the hell can syrians have the power when they don't have enough knowledge?!! :eek:
my answer is simple : be careful of ****** people ... in large numbers!! :D

[cedars]

Alain,

The Syrians proved that they outsmarted us on every single political level. Why? Simply because they know their history, they know what they want, they have a plan and they know what they want.

If you ask half of the Christians in lebanon if they know who is Keyrouz baraket or x and y and z, they do not know. These are martyrs who fell few years ago. I am sure if you ask them what happened in 1885, they will tell you the story of 2 kids playing and ....

If Syrians are ******, then we are ....

[alain]

hard to believe that no one is really taking action to free Lebanon, alla we hear are words "syria must withdraw", "lahoud's re-election was tricekd", etc
palestinians and iraqis and willing to commit suicide to defend their lands ... i'm not asking our people to do the same but i don't see any firm actions
so ******? ... yes, as we are giving away our land, history, etc and no one really seems to give a heck ! :mad:

[freeall]

Hi Guys,this Matter Is Not A Matters Of Christians Or Muslims Anymore It's A Matter Of Conquer.trust Me Syrian Aren't Interested In Any Groups In Lebanon,history Showed That They Used Parties And Groups In Ebanon.kataeb Was Used To Let The Syrians Enter Lebanon In Order To Free The Lebanese From Palestinians.than The Druz Were Used To Kill Christians When Kamal Jounblat Was Killed (by Syrians Of Course And Not Christians).amal And Hezballah Were In A Period Enemies,this Polici Of "divide And Conquer" Was Successefull.
We Also As Lf Were Also Used By Us To Delete Aoun.all Lebanese Parties Were Used That's Why Now We Shouls Know That This Is Not A Matter Of Christians Or Muslims It's A Bigger Matter.
So Let Us Talk As Lebanese Citizens And Not As Christians Or Muslims.

[Khider]

.... On the other hand, the enemy knows them very well.


Do you really think so? I mean, most Muslims I know, even the not-so-Wahhabi, well-intentioned ones, haven't a clue about Christians or Christianity... they think we're Western agents working for another Crusade.

[libertarian]

Do you really think so? I mean, most Muslims I know, even the not-so-Wahhabi, well-intentioned ones, haven't a clue about Christians or Christianity... they think we're Western agents working for another Crusade.

You know, I wish that was actually the case.

[freeall]

Nowadays,what make you so sure ?
the medias made you think like that.
Syria want us to keep thinkng like that so it can always interfere between us in order to resolve our problem.
Ba3den read the history man and you'll know that i'm right

[cedars]

Khider,

I said the enemy, I didn't name it :) Are you saying the Wahabis are the enemies, or Islam itself ?:)

As for teh Wahabis, Salafis, .... their notion of Christianity is what Mohammed taught them and practiced. They followed the khalifas and the Sheikhs. They go by their book and religion. Neither I or you can change them. Mohammed words for them are God's words, wallahu a3lam as they say ;)

[alain]

yesterday, the highly chief in command of the French Forces in Pakistan-Afghanistan who is on the hunt after Bin Laden confirmed that they spoted him in a Pakistan area close to Afghanistan but the US didn't want them to give the assault, mentioning that this might hurt Musharraf's position!!! :eek:

could this be true?! anybody hurt that as well?

[Khider]

You know, I wish that was actually the case.


I'm sorry you feel that way... I don't think ignorance is anything to live with. It's a product of a failing education system which teaches them to follow their religion blindly, and nothing about the other religions they share the region with. I understand that in Saudi Arabia it's just about as bad for Shi'a and the like as it is for Christians.

Nasr Abu Zaid's book, Al Khitab wa al Tawil has a really good section on this... don't know if you read Arabic.

[cedars]

Alain,

Couple of weeks ago a US senator said we know exactly where he is and gave the name of the area. He added the problem is in going and capture him, he said american politicians and military official are afraid of another Vietnam.

[alain]

toz, they want him dead or alive or not ?!!
all this propaganda they're making that they want him and after that they let him slip away ...
perhaps there are other reasons for that? perhaps this :

if Osama had been captured, Bush would have nothing to wave at Americans to scare them out of their votes. :confused:

[cedars]

Alain,

Again you fall under conspiracy theory. How about if he capture him, he will be portrayed as the man who accomplishes the job and he will get every one who hurts the U.S ? The positives in capturing him are more than not capturing him.

[alain]

... and possibly get him killed by someone without getting themselves involved 100%!

anyway, after having seen 2 days ago a complete documentation on the Kursk submarine, nothing in this world is uglier than politics! ... just to mention (if u didn't know so far) that it was the US submarines Memphis & Toledo who sank the Kursk submarine ... but this is another story!

[Hippie]

where did you see the ducumentary alain....? that would be something interesting to see.
I knew the russian committee never could not come with an explanation back then....

[alain]

hippie, it was on the RTBF ...
otherwise i have a link that I found and explains everything in details ... don't know if i can post the link, otherwise, pm me if u need it

[bullocks]

Khider,

I said the enemy, I didn't name it :) Are you saying the Wahabis are the enemies, or Islam itself ?:)

As for teh Wahabis, Salafis, .... their notion of Christianity is what Mohammed taught them and practiced. They followed the khalifas and the Sheikhs. They go by their book and religion. Neither I or you can change them. Mohammed words for them are God's words, wallahu a3lam as they say ;)


ÇáÈÞÑÉ/61 Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇú æóÇáøóÐöíäó åóÇÏõæÇú æóÇáäøóÕóÇÑóì æóÇáÕøóÇÈöÆöíäó ãóäú Âãóäó ÈöÇááøóåö æóÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÂÎöÑö æóÚóãöáó ÕóÇáöÍÇð Ýóáóåõãú ÃóÌúÑõåõãú ÚöäÏó ÑóÈøöåöãú æóáÇó ÎóæúÝñ Úóáóíúåöãú æóáÇó åõãú íóÍúÒóäõæäó

addressed to Wahhabis and Salafis. they don't follow what Mohammad (S.A.S.) had taught us in that respect. the above iyeh does not give the "notion" of christianity that you're talking about


As for Mohamad's words being God's words, the koraan was memorised by al 7afaza for many years after the prophet died, then the Koraan was written.

it is highly controversial whether there is a grammatical error (khata2 min l'katib) because Sibawe put arabic grammar after the Koraan onzil. A lot of the arabic grammar was established based on the Koraan and it was written for persians who couldn't speak arabic well enough (info from 1984). When the arabic language deteriorated, Arabs themselves began to follow arabic grammar because they weren't as good as speaking their language anymore.


ÇáÈÞÑÉ/61 Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇú æóÇáøóÐöíäó åóÇÏõæÇú æóÇáäøóÕóÇÑóì æóÇáÕøóÇÈöÆöíäó ãóäú Âãóäó ÈöÇááøóåö æóÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÂÎöÑö æóÚóãöáó ÕóÇáöÍÇð Ýóáóåõãú ÃóÌúÑõåõãú ÚöäÏó ÑóÈøöåöãú æóáÇó ÎóæúÝñ Úóáóíúåöãú æóáÇó åõãú íóÍúÒóäõæäó

ÇáãÇÆÏÉ/68 Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇú æóÇáøóÐöíäó åóÇÏõæÇú æóÇáÕøóÇÈöÄõæäó æóÇáäøóÕóÇÑóì ãóäú Âãóäó ÈöÇááøåö æóÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÂÎöÑö æÚóãöáó ÕóÇáöÍðÇ ÝóáÇó ÎóæúÝñ Úóáóíúåöãú æóáÇó åõãú íóÍúÒóäõæäó

Ibin kathir called it khata2 min l'katib (source: christian coptic channel)

I also heard that fadlallah also called it khata2 min l'katib (info from 1984).

I'm going to send an email to fadlallah to ask him what this error means, and why it is there.

you call for reform in islam - this is reform. 1000 years ago (ibin kathir), people weren't afraid to question what was wrong and to think in islam and yijtihdo. Fadlallah is now doing that. Salafis and wahhabis are not a majority in lebanon

P.S. the khata2 min al'katib means a mistake by the 7afaza, who are normal people like you and me

the problem ya cedars is you're talking on those salafi forums, who aren't anywhere near to being moderate. they employ all their efforts to be anti-christian. they don't represent the muslim population in lebanon. most of them aren't even from lebanon

[cedars]

bullocks,

Don't you think you are hiding the issue by saying, it is on the forums and on the net ? Those people are every where and not only online.

I didn't say all Muslims of Lebanon are that type. But for sure a part of them are and the rest will not stand in front of those we are talking about.

ÇáÊæÈÉ 31:
ÇÊøóÎóÐõæÇú ÃóÍúÈóÇÑóåõãú æóÑõåúÈóÇäóåõãú ÃóÑúÈóÇÈðÇ ãøöä Ïõæäö Çááøåö æóÇáúãóÓöíÍó ÇÈúäó ãóÑúíóãó æóãóÇ ÃõãöÑõæÇú ÅöáÇøó áöíóÚúÈõÏõæÇú ÅöáóÜåðÇ æóÇÍöÏðÇ áÇøó ÅöáóÜåó ÅöáÇøó åõæó ÓõÈúÍóÇäóåõ ÚóãøóÇ íõÔúÑößõæäó)

And many other ayat that are used to kill and cut heads:

æóÞóÇÊöáõæåõãú ÍóÊøóì áÇó Êóßõæäó ÝöÊúäóÉñ æóíóßõæäó ÇáÏøöíäõ ßõáøõåõ áöáøå

ÝÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (æóáÇ íóÒóÇáõæäó íõÞóÇÊöáõæäóßõãú ÍóÊøóì íóÑõÏøõæßõãú Úóäú Ïöíäößõãú Åöäö ÇÓúÊóØóÇÚõæÇ) (ÇáÈÞÑÉ: ãä ÇáÂíÉ 217).

æÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (æóáóäú ÊóÑúÖóì Úóäúßó ÇáúíóåõæÏõ æóáÇ ÇáäøóÕóÇÑóì ÍóÊøóì ÊóÊøóÈöÚó ãöáøóÊóåõãú) (ÇáÈÞÑÉ: ãä ÇáÂíÉ 120).

æÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (æóÏøõæÇ áóæú ÊóßúÝõÑõæäó ßóãóÇ ßóÝóÑõæÇ ÝóÊóßõæäõæäó ÓóæóÇÁð) (ÇáäÓÇÁ: ãä ÇáÂíÉ 89).

æÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (Åöäú íóËúÞóÝõæßõãú íóßõæäõæÇ áóßõãú ÃóÚúÏóÇÁð æóíóÈúÓõØõæÇ Åöáóíúßõãú ÃóíúÏöíóåõãú æóÃóáúÓöäóÊóåõãú ÈöÇáÓøõæÁö æóæóÏøõæÇ áóæú ÊóßúÝõÑõæäó) (ÇáããÊÍäÉ:2).

æÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (æóÏøó ßóËöíÑñ ãöäú Ãóåúáö ÇáúßöÊóÇÈö áóæú íóÑõÏøõæäóßõãú ãöäú ÈóÚúÏö ÅöíãóÇäößõãú ßõÝøóÇÑÇð ÍóÓóÏÇð ãöäú ÚöäúÏö ÃóäúÝõÓöåöãú ãöäú ÈóÚúÏö ãóÇ ÊóÈóíøóäó áóåõãõ ÇáúÍóÞø) (ÇáÈÞÑÉ: ãä ÇáÂíÉ109).

æÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ Åöäú ÊõØöíÚõæÇ ÝóÑöíÞÇð ãöäó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÃõæÊõæÇ ÇáúßöÊóÇÈó íóÑõÏøõæßõãú ÈóÚúÏó ÅöíãóÇäößõãú ßóÇÝöÑöíäó) (Âá ÚãÑÇä:100).

æÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ Åöäú ÊõØöíÚõæÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇ íóÑõÏøõæßõãú Úóáóì ÃóÚúÞóÇÈößõãú ÝóÊóäúÞóáöÈõæÇ ÎóÇÓöÑöíäó) (Âá ÚãÑÇä:149).

æÞÇá ÊÚÇáì (ÞóÏú ÈóÏóÊö ÇáúÈóÛúÖóÇÁõ ãöäú ÃóÝúæóÇåöåöãú æóãóÇ ÊõÎúÝöí ÕõÏõæÑõåõãú ÃóßúÈóÑõ) (Âá ÚãÑÇä: ãä ÇáÂíÉ 118).

[bullocks]

man i don't understand how these ayeit can be used to kill and cut heads. that's not what they say.

Bin Laden doesn't have the right to call for jihad, he's not a marji3.
Sadir is not a marji3 either.

i haven't talked to a single muslim in lebanon who supports 9/11 masalan, or supports bin laden.

ba3dein the zarqawi group in iraq has killed muslims, one of them lebanese.

there's a clear distinction. This is a question for you (for cedars): Can you draw a difference between Sistani and Sadr? or do you see them both the same?

[cedars]

Sunna are different then shiaa and there is no marja3ia. In Islam itself there is not marja3ia. It is not like the vatican and the church.

For me sistani and Sadr are the same. There is no difference. Same goes for Qardawi and Abed al miniim moustafa halima ,...


As what allow them to cut heads, well you have to go back to ahadith and see what Mohamad did. They are doing a fraction of what he did.

[cedars]

bullocks how about this?


{íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÞóÇÊöáõæÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó íóáõæäóßõãú ãöäó ÇáúßõÝøóÇÑö æóáúíóÌöÏõæÇ Ýöíßõãú ÛöáúÙóÉð}¡ æÞæáå: {æóÞóÇÊöáõæåõãú ÍóÊøóì áÇ Êóßõæäó ÝöÊúäóÉñ æóíóßõæäó ÇáÏøöíäõ ßõáøõåõ áöáøóåö}¡ æÞæáå: {ÞóÇÊöáõæÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó áÇ íõÄúãöäõæäó ÈöÇááøóåö æóáÇ ÈöÇáúíóæúãö ÇáúÂÎöÑö æóáÇ íõÍóÑøöãõæäó ãóÇ ÍóÑøóãó Çááøóåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóáÇ íóÏöíäõæäó Ïöíäó ÇáúÍóÞøö ãöäó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÃõæÊõæÇ ÇáúßöÊóÇÈó ÍóÊøóì íõÚúØõæÇ ÇáúÌöÒúíóÉó Úóäú íóÏò æóåõãú ÕóÇÛöÑõæäó} æÞÇá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßãÇ Ýí ÇáÕÍíÍíä ãä ÍÏíË ÌãÇÚÉ ãä ÇáÕÍÇÈÉ: "ÃãÑÊ Ãä ÃõÞÇÊá ÇáäÇÓ ÍÊì íÔåÏæÇ Ãä áÇ Åáå ÅáÇ Çááå æÃäí ÑÓæá Çááå" ÇáÍÏíË¡ æÝí ÇáãÓäÏ æÓää ÃÈí ÏÇæÏ ÈÓäÏò ÍÓä æÌæÏå ÔíÎ ÇáÅÓáÇã ÇÈä ÊíãíÉ æÇÈä ÑÌÈò æÛíÑåãÇ: "ÈõÚËÊ ÈÇáÓíÝ Èíä íÏí ÇáÓÇÚÉ ÍÊì íÚÈÏ Çááå æÍÏå áÇ ÔÑíß áå"¡ æÝí ÕÍíÍ ãÓáã ãä ÍÏíË ÓáíãÇä Èä ÈÑíÏÉ Úä ÃÈíå: "ÇãÖæÇ Ýí ÓÈíá Çááå ÞÇÊáæÇ ãä ßÝÑ ÈÇááå".

words like these are excuses for them today to go fight and kill people.

[Nescafe]

The problem with Islam, that it can be interpereted in any way....

And ppl are obliged to follow what Sheikh command them....if u argue their interpetation....ur Kafir and u should be slained...

Another issue, depending on the occasion, Quran itself have mixed messages towards christians, jews....At some point, it's encouraging Muslims to kill them....in another it promote co existance, and Chrisitans are the closest believers to muslims...

This is noticed before any battle, if Muhammad needed the CHristians aid, verses tend to be supportive...otherwise it wouldn't spare christians, and the christian faith itself.

My own opinion, Shiite tend to have a rational approach understanding Quran, and they erge believers to argue...Sunnis....what the Wali 'al Amr says, it's the right thing...otherwise if u keep arguing ur not Muslim, ur Kafir.

Cedars, these ppl even claim muslims who don't follow them are Kuffar, just like in Algeria...

I would rather have ppl like Bullocks, and deal with them as muslims, rather telling all muslims, ur religiojn is violence...get lost!

Cedars seriously...what's the point of contatntly pointing out that Islam is violence? Muslims won't convert nor abadoned it...yet there are ppl who wanna be moderate!! Why not?! If we keep telling them it's violance...it's bad it's hateful...at the end they'll be like : f it!!! Yes we are terroirsts and we love it!!!

Islam has a good margin of accepting others and being peacful...some want to take this part only!!Why not?

[cedars]

Nescafe,

First I never said all muslims are like that, but I truly believe the majority are. Maybe not in Lebanon but around the world they are.

These people you are talking about are growing in numbers and are causing problems around the world, including Lebanon. Remember what is teh title of this thread and what we are discussing here and what kind of Muslims we are talking about.

There is nothing wrong in pointing out on what qura'anik versus these people are basing their killings.

The Muslims are debating these issues among each others. I have all the right to debate them to, my people been suffering from these people since fatih al islami.

[horse]

Frankly, Islam should be banned. The same applies to any Christian sect that wants to interfere in civil matters. Religion should not have the freedom to incite any sort of violence or inequality in any shape or form. Human rights should take precedence over any religion.
One day people in the west will wake up to this fact. I hope it is not going to be too late.
Just to prove my point: Ataturk had to take one of the toughest stands against Islam in order to achieve what he achieved in Turkey. The moment you tell people it is ok to be Muslim, you are picking and choosing what is ok and what is not. Most people are not smart enough to undertand religion and interpret it in a peaceful manner. In every religion you have clergies studying for years in order to explain and interpret it to simple minded people. No religion that incites violence and inequality should be allowed. This should be part of the human rights charter.
The same way the soviet union collapsed when it was shut down from the rest of the world , Islamic nations will collapse and start changing to civil and peacefull institutions.
Can anyone explain to me the purpose of the Organisation of Muslim nations? How can a nation be muslim? What if they only have 10,000 citizens out of millions who are not muslim? Does this entitle the rest of them to impose Islamic laws? Where are human rights advocates? Can you imagine having a similar Christian Organisation?
It is hard to swallow it but YES muslims should be told that their religion is NOT OK. I am glad that cannibalism was eradicated before the days of political correctness and acceptance. If today we had a country in Africa that still practiced cannibalism, a lot of people of the left would be calling for their preservation as a unique culture. These are people and not animals. They need to be educated and given better chances in life.
The biggest injustice committed by the west is the way they treat immigrants from backward nations. Those people are migrating for a different and better life. They get to the west and some idiot tells them that there is no need for them to change or get educated. They can preserve their culture (multiculturism) just for our enjoyment. It is like bringing animals to the Zoo and allowing them to live in a habitat similar to their native habitats just so that we can learn more about them.

[bullocks]

bullocks how about this?


{íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÞóÇÊöáõæÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó íóáõæäóßõãú ãöäó ÇáúßõÝøóÇÑö æóáúíóÌöÏõæÇ Ýöíßõãú ÛöáúÙóÉð}¡ æÞæáå: {æóÞóÇÊöáõæåõãú ÍóÊøóì áÇ Êóßõæäó ÝöÊúäóÉñ æóíóßõæäó ÇáÏøöíäõ ßõáøõåõ áöáøóåö}¡ æÞæáå: {ÞóÇÊöáõæÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó áÇ íõÄúãöäõæäó ÈöÇááøóåö æóáÇ ÈöÇáúíóæúãö ÇáúÂÎöÑö æóáÇ íõÍóÑøöãõæäó ãóÇ ÍóÑøóãó Çááøóåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóáÇ íóÏöíäõæäó Ïöíäó ÇáúÍóÞøö ãöäó ÇáøóÐöíäó ÃõæÊõæÇ ÇáúßöÊóÇÈó ÍóÊøóì íõÚúØõæÇ ÇáúÌöÒúíóÉó Úóäú íóÏò æóåõãú ÕóÇÛöÑõæäó} æÞÇá Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßãÇ Ýí ÇáÕÍíÍíä ãä ÍÏíË ÌãÇÚÉ ãä ÇáÕÍÇÈÉ: "ÃãÑÊ Ãä ÃõÞÇÊá ÇáäÇÓ ÍÊì íÔåÏæÇ Ãä áÇ Åáå ÅáÇ Çááå æÃäí ÑÓæá Çááå" ÇáÍÏíË¡ æÝí ÇáãÓäÏ æÓää ÃÈí ÏÇæÏ ÈÓäÏò ÍÓä æÌæÏå ÔíÎ ÇáÅÓáÇã ÇÈä ÊíãíÉ æÇÈä ÑÌÈò æÛíÑåãÇ: "ÈõÚËÊ ÈÇáÓíÝ Èíä íÏí ÇáÓÇÚÉ ÍÊì íÚÈÏ Çááå æÍÏå áÇ ÔÑíß áå"¡ æÝí ÕÍíÍ ãÓáã ãä ÍÏíË ÓáíãÇä Èä ÈÑíÏÉ Úä ÃÈíå: "ÇãÖæÇ Ýí ÓÈíá Çááå ÞÇÊáæÇ ãä ßÝÑ ÈÇááå".

words like these are excuses for them today to go fight and kill people.


yes but there are conditions when these were brought down, they were brought down at a certain time and age when there was a war, most of which times islam was acting in self-defence.

These would apply when a marji3 calls for jihad.

I have one question. Has any valid marji3 called for jihad? I can't remember the last time jihad was called for by a valid marji3.

(P.S. of course there are salafi people in lebanon, but they are a minority)

anyway let's drop the discussion, it's even out of topic. I just wanted to point out that muslims in lebanon are co-existing with christians, so it's a different case scenario. And we should build on that to be able to develop a country called lebanon (which is currently non-existent)

[bullocks]

I wanted to point out christians in lebanon aren't being given their political rights. This would be resolved once there is true and genuine reconciliation. I believe that's the only way to resolve that issue - amongst other issues.

As long as lebanon remains as a means to fullfill regional obligations, lebanese christians will be treated the same. Lebanon should take up a neutral position on regional and international politics, w'hayda khalas lobnein - isleim w'massi7iyyeh. And only then will we be able to establish lebanon as one nation

[cedars]

The Muslims in the Arab world believe that they are under attack. Those ayat came when Islam was on the move and Mohamed started his "Ghazawat".

What is a marja3 for you. As I said, every Sheikh is a Marja3. Islam is different than Christianity.

P.S: Salafis are not teh only one calling for jihad.

The case is, there are thousands of Muslims groups in Lebanon do not want to co-exist with Christians. The problem is with teh Lebanese Muslims and maraji3 are doing nothing to stop them. Example Dinnieh incidents, the Muslims maraji3 were attacking the governments.
A Month ago, remember what happened in Anjar? The Maraji3 al islamia was asking the government to release those arrested....

Muslim community needs to prove to the Christians of Lebanon that they really want to co-exist and not vice versa.

[bullocks]

ya cedars - the dinnieh group aren't a large group and they don't represent a valid marji3. most of the muslims dislike them, i know from my family my friends back home. howdeh jame3a zo3ran 3am ya3imlo mashekil, feito 3al mokhayyam la yihirbo min 'dawleh. ba3den hinneh illeh assaso jond i sham, w'amtelon abo mi7jin wil mi2de7. howdeh killon mortazaka min sooriyya.

Of course not every sheikh is a marji3. The valid marji3 in lebanon is the likes of the mufti, fadllalah, 2abalein. Outside lebanon Al Azhar, Sistani, etc.

Nasrallah is not a marji3, he's a military person and a politician. And likewise Sadir is not a marji3.

Mohammad (SAS) didn't do ghazaweit, he attacked those who were getting ready to attack him. It was a tribal fight, it doesn't mean that islam started it. The only thing that islam did was to stop tribes from fighting against each other by unifying them.

[cedars]

bullocks,

What Al Azhar say is respected by Muslims but they are not obliged to follow him. Any sheikh can issue a "fatwa" and people will follow his fatwa.

Mohammad did ghazawat and he called them himself ghazawat. I am not creating or naming the terms. It is what Mohamad and his followers call them.
Not all his attacks were to unite the tribes, most of them is to conquer and expand.

As for Lebanon, again the maraji3 you named never said a bad word about dounieh people or Anjar people, instead they want tehm to be released.

Muslims of Lebanon need to prove to Christians of Lebanon they they really want to co-exist and not vice versa.

[bullocks]

For me sistani and Sadr are the same. There is no difference.


that's not right.

and I will ask you another question. You're saying that Islam spread in ghazawat. Okay how did Judaism and Christianity and all other religions spread? Are you saying that everyone just adopted them in peace. Ma kein fi wathaniyyeh in europe? Were they allowed to practice wathaniyyeh lamma domij 'deen l'masee7eh ma3 'dawleh


As for the maraji3, the shi3a have strict and well-known maraji3: sistani in iraq, fadlallah in lebanon.. there's one in iran.. etc etc..

In sunni, every sheikh has the right to make a fatwa. but if a sheikh isn't a high marji3, people wouldn't follow him.

I agree with one thing you say though: muslims have to prove to christians that they want to co-exist and vice versa

however, if you fail to see a difference between people like dinnieh and between "general" moderate muslims, then it would be very difficult to keep up with this discussion.

[cedars]

For me they are the same, one take a hard stand and the second negotiate. Both Sistani and Sadr want the same thing. That is why I said they are the same. I am aware of the rank of Sistani.

As for marja3ia scroll up and I told you there is a difference between Shiaa and Sunna. I am also aware of that.

I do not see moderate Msulims, I do not hear them. If they do not speak, for me it is a message that they agree with the dunnieh people. The moderate Muslims didn't ask their Sheikhs to stop supporting dunnieh people and stop asking for their release.

If the moderate Muslims are a majority, why we do not hear from them.

One more time, it is time for the Muslims to be honest and really say if they wat to co-exist and prove it. We did our share and we paid the price becasue we said we want to put an end to the war and we want to co-exist. The ball is in your park not mine. Trust me, we can't wait for long any more.

[bullocks]

how did you do your share -

the war was stopped when everyone was defeated by syria

it wasn't a matter of choice.

had the LF or the communists or the aounists masalan or anyone been able to continue fighting, then they would've kept on going..

but everyone saw that they were losing in this war



who is the sheikh who wanted the release of the dinnieh group - what's his name. And did any christian authority come forward to condemn the dinnieh group

[bullocks]

Intifada are you lebanese?

If you are.. then you should re-think your position. you're taking things one-sidedly. you need to understand that the civil war was everyone's fault and not just one group's fault.

try to understand the differences instead of turning them into a fight.

ya3neh shoo byiji abil - lobnein aw l'2adaya l'ikleemiyyeh.

lobnein lezim deyman yiji awwalan.

"muslims have to prove to christians that they want to co-exist and vice versa" -

[cedars]

My share was in being silent for the past 10 years. I do not buy that Muslims lost in the war and Syria one. So far teh outcome and teh way it is played, Muslims have the upper hand.

The dar al ifta' not long time ago asked for tehir release. Patriarch condemned Dinnieh poeple.

[bullocks]

khayyeh your share is being silent for the last ten years. tayyib ana i've lost an uncle to the war and i've been silent all my life.

that's weird that dar l'ifta would ask for their release. On what basis.

Could you outline the dinnieh issue in detail and let's see what went wrong. ya3neh could you explain how the muslim dar l'ifta failed to condemn (but rather contributed to) the dinnieh incident. From the time the dinnieh incident began.


muslims do have the upper hand - they don't give in because lack of trust. we've formed a group to give in to equality. Ya3neh bi battil fi upper hand (ma fi la muslim wala christian upper hand). and we're growing slowly but steadily. but i believe that's the only first step to a forming a country.

[zendt]

Yes, ana Lubnany, but what i don't understand is that you say Lubnan byiji awal, i agree but than if that is true than why do many people here who claim Lubnan first have no problem with US marines on our sacred soil, or french soldiers or the Katta'ib collaboration with Israel or Gemayel collaboration with Israel and the attacks against fellow Lebanese, Lubnan awal but that doesn't mean that i have to turn my back on the Palestinian struggle no matter what happened in our homeland, or it doesnt' mean i support the US attacks on Syria and the sanctions, the US doesn't care about lebanese and anybody who thinks it does and supports the sanctions on syria than they are not putting Lubnan awal, they are putting American and Israel imperialist interest awal.

Lebanon 2awwalan means that I will be against the Palestinians (and ppl who take their sides) when their cause turns into invading Lebanon and fighting his ppl instead of fighting the Israelis, claiming Lebanon as a Watan Badil, or even attacking Israel only from Lebanese soil, and not from any other country, like Jordan, which by the way also fought palestinians when it was threatened in its own security....

Lebanon 2awwalan means that I will be against Syrians (and ppl who take their sides) when they invade my country, claiming its ressources, killing its ppl, wanting to annex it, interfering in its internal affairs, appointing its deputies, ministers, and even presidents !

WE never said we support the US in taking military actions against Syria, nor the sanctions imposed, and you can refer to the speeches of Patriarche Sfeir and to Kornet Shehwan statements, they never said anything but demanding rectifications of Lebano-Syrian relations according to Taef....

And tell me plz when did we say we are with the Israelis and what they are doing, and I mean nowadays, and not back in 1982 coz this was smthg else, in a whole different context, and in my opinion, and others, more than justified, but this is another topic...so, again, when did u hear anyone saying he is with the Israelis slaughtering Palestinians ?

[cedars]

bullocks,

I am not go into dinnieh issue and as for dar al ifta, for sure it is normal, they stand by their people.

Where are the Muslims from calling Syria to leave Lebanon? Where are the Msulims from calling for a real equality in Lebanon?

So far, there is no evidence that the majority of the Muslim Lebanese want Syria out and a real equal representation of power in lebanon.

Talk is cheap. We need to see the act. I also lost an uncle, a cousin, several freidns during the war and I stayed silent. Why? Because we decided to turn the page and move on. The result, we got stabbed in teh back and the Muslim community is more than happy of what is going on in Lebanon.

If not? I do not hear them, where are they ??

[bullocks]

Yes, ana Lubnany, but what i don't understand is that you say Lubnan byiji awal, i agree but than if that is true than why do many people here who claim Lubnan first have no problem with US marines on our sacred soil, or french soldiers or the Katta'ib collaboration with Israel or Gemayel collaboration with Israel and the attacks against fellow Lebanese, Lubnan awal but that doesn't mean that i have to turn my back on the Palestinian struggle no matter what happened in our homeland, or it doesnt' mean i support the US attacks on Syria and the sanctions, the US doesn't care about lebanese and anybody who thinks it does and supports the sanctions on syria than they are not putting Lubnan awal, they are putting American and Israel imperialist interest awal.


man the collaboration with israel was part of the civil war; it's a different issue. From the LF point of view, the muslims similarly collaborated with the arabs and the palestinians against them.

As for supporting the US, that should not happen because the US would only interfere for US interests, and not lebanese interests. We have to fight off the syrian interference ourselves, we shouldn't rely on outside powers.

[Anne]

man the collaboration with israel was part of the civil war; it's a different issue. From the LF point of view, the muslims similarly collaborated with the arabs and the palestinians against them.

As for supporting the US, that should not happen because the US would only interfere for US interests, and not lebanese interests. We have to fight off the syrian interference ourselves, we shouldn't rely on outside powers.


Agreed! :cool: ;)

[MPN2004]

Bullocks, If only 40% of the Lebanese Muslims think like you do, how much trouble we could have avoided.

I 100% agree with you that Lebanon should be completely neutral and this is what at least 90% of the Christian population always wanted. We are not a superpower to participate in conflicts much bigger than us.

It would be in everyone's interest that we have a peaceful life in our cherished country.

Best Regards

[horse]

Yes, ana Lubnany, but what i don't understand is that you say Lubnan byiji awal, i agree but than if that is true than why do many people here who claim Lubnan first have no problem with US marines on our sacred soil, or french soldiers or the Katta'ib collaboration with Israel or Gemayel collaboration with Israel and the attacks against fellow Lebanese, Lubnan awal but that doesn't mean that i have to turn my back on the Palestinian struggle no matter what happened in our homeland, or it doesnt' mean i support the US attacks on Syria and the sanctions, the US doesn't care about lebanese and anybody who thinks it does and supports the sanctions on syria than they are not putting Lubnan awal, they are putting American and Israel imperialist interest awal.

Since independance and before we argued Lebanon First. Our main problems with your people has been about Lebanon First. In 1969 you refused Lebanon first and went to Egypt first. In 1973, you refused Lebanon First and you went to the Palestinian First. In 1975/1976 you refused Lebanon First and went to Syria First. In 1980/1981 you refused Lebanon First and went to Iran First. As a matter of fact we established Lebanon first after WW1 and fought the French for it.
On every corner you have proven us wrong. You have convinced us that we cannot have our Lebanon without alliances. Now we have to decide what allicances we must have Mangol/Tartar or Civilised/cultured? You made your choice we made our choice. Talk to us after you prove yourself that you mean Lebanon First 100%.

PS: By the way don't tell me that 1975/1976 you invited the Syrian because this is the biggest falsification of history ever committed in our time. The Syrian/Palestinian/your people won the battle and forced us to accept the Syrian. Notice that I said the battle and not the war because we were fighting back as early as 1977.

[bullocks]

of course they rejected lebanon first - they're brought up on the basis of arab belonging. that's the other group's history. they've always been part of the arab world.

the reason you wanted lebanon first was because it's a haven for the christian minority (which is a minority in the arabic world but not in lebanon). So you benefit from lebanon first. The reason they wanted an arabic nation (which would include lebanon) was because simply it's how they've been living for the last one and half thousand years. So they'd benefit from having lebanon as an arab country.

lack of understanding is what's causing this. it's not time for anyone to make valiant remarks - it's time to build a nation. And probably the only chance we will get before the whole region changes again. The middle east is a hot spot for political changes